TRACY RODIQUENZ’S DEPOSITION IN THE RIVERS’ CASE PART 1 OF 1

hereupon,
·2· · · · · · · · · ·TRACY RODRIQUENZ,
·3· ·acknowledged having been duly sworn to tell the
·4· ·truth, testified upon her oath as follows:
·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Of course, yes.
·6· · · · · · · · · ·DIRECT EXAMINATION
·7· ·BY MR. LARKIN:
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Ms. Rodriquenz?
·9· · · ·A· · ·It’s Rodriquenz.
10· · · ·Q· · ·Rodriquenz, okay.· I have — I apologize.
11· ·My name is Robert Larkin —
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
13· · · ·Q· · ·– and I have been requested by the Town
14· ·of White Springs to conduct an investigation into a
15· ·complaint that has been made by Anita Rivers, one of
16· ·their employees, against Stacy Tebo, the Town
17· ·Manager.· In so doing, Ms. Rivers identified some
18· ·peoples, some individuals, that might have been
19· ·witnesses to her allegations, and you were one of
20· ·those individuals that she asked myself, me and
21· ·Fred, to interview, Fred Koberlein.· And so that is
22· ·why, you, we asked that you come down here today,
23· ·and I appreciate you doing so.
24· · · · · · ·So this is not a deposition; although, it
25· ·is — it is a sworn statement.· I — I’m doing this
for both my protection, and for the witness’s
·2· ·protection, so that there is no confusion as to what
·3· ·anybody says.· I’m not here to interpret what I
·4· ·think the witness may or may not have said, and I —
·5· ·that’s why I’ve asked that it be placed in a
·6· ·transcript.
·7· · · · · · ·So to that end, if you, at any point,
·8· ·have any questions for me or Fred, or you need to
·9· ·take a break or whatever it is, just please feel
10· ·free and let me know.· If I ask a question that’s
11· ·kind of convoluted, or I misstate something, just
12· ·let me know, and I’ll be happy to rephrase it, okay?
13· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
14· · · ·Q· · ·Could you state your full name, for the
15· ·record?
16· · · ·A· · ·Tracy Lee Rodriquenz.
17· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Ms. Rodriquenz, where are you
18· ·employed?
19· · · ·A· · ·The White Springs Police Department, for
20· ·the Town of White Springs.
21· · · ·Q· · ·What is your position there?
22· · · ·A· · ·I’m Chief of Police.
23· · · ·Q· · ·And how long have you been the Chief of
24· ·Police?
25· · · ·A· · ·Three years now — let me think, ’15,
· ·’16, ’17, uh-huh, three years.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· As the Chief of Police, what are
·3· ·your duties, just in general?
·4· · · ·A· · ·To supervise the day-to-day operations of
·5· ·the Police Department.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have any supervisory role over
·7· ·Anita Rivers?
·8· · · ·A· · ·No, sir, I do not.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Let me ask it a different way; do you
10· ·know who Anita Rivers is?
11· · · ·A· · ·Yes, I do.
12· · · ·Q· · ·And how do you know her?
13· · · ·A· · ·She’s the administrative assistant for
14· ·the town.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And is she in any way employed by
16· ·the Police Department?
17· · · ·A· · ·No, she’s not an employee.· She does help
18· ·some; she assists in some duties.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Is this as when — whenever you
20· ·need assistance, you can go out and ask Ms. Rivers
21· ·to assist you in some way?
22· · · ·A· · ·Sometimes, when it’s appropriate.
23· ·Depending on the confidential matter, sometimes I
24· ·can have her help me, and sometimes I can’t.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have to go to anyone in particular
· ·to ask, or get permission, for her to assist you?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don’t.
·3· ·It all depends on the circumstances, and the respect
·4· ·for the Town Manager, because that’s her staff.
·5· ·So —
·6· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
·7· · · ·A· · ·– if I think it’s a little bit more in
·8· ·detail, I give her that respect and ask her if it’s
·9· ·okay if I ask Anita to do something for me and —
10· ·because I don’t want it to be a conflict.· She may
11· ·have already given her something to do; I just don’t
12· ·want it to be a conflict.
13· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· How long have you known Ms.
14· ·Rivers?
15· · · ·A· · ·Since she started working there, and
16· ·that’s been a few years.· I don’t really know her
17· ·start date.· I wouldn’t know her start date.
18· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Did you start before she did?
19· · · ·A· · ·I’ve been there for 14 years.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Oh, I see, okay.· So you are just most
21· ·recently in the position of Police Chief, but you
22· ·were —
23· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
24· · · ·Q· · ·You were employed prior to that?
25· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
1· · · ·Q· · ·In the Police Department?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Did you know Ms. Rivers before she came
·4· ·to this — to the town?
·5· · · ·A· · ·No, sir.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· How about Ms. — how about the
·7· ·Town Manager, Stacy Tebo, how long have you known
·8· ·her?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Just since her employment.
10· · · ·Q· · ·And I — as I understand it, there is
11· ·another individual that may be working in the Town
12· ·Hall, and that woman’s name is Pam Tomlinson?
13· · · ·A· · ·The Finance Director, yes.
14· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know that person?
15· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
16· · · ·Q· · ·And how long have you known her?
17· · · ·A· · ·Since I’ve worked there.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So for the past 14 years?
19· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And as I appreciate it, your
21· ·office is located in the Town Hall, or inside of the
22· ·Town Hall; is that right?
23· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.· It’s the Police Department and
24· ·my office yes, sir.
25· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· If you could, just describe
in general terms where your office is, in relation
·2· ·to Ms. Tebo and Ms. Tomlinson and Ms. Rivers.
·3· · · ·A· · ·Okay.· My office is here (demonstrating,)
·4· ·and Anita’s office is in the center (demonstrating.)
·5· ·Ms. Tebo’s office is next door to mine
·6· ·(demonstrating,) and Ms. Pam’s office is just a
·7· ·couple of steps down the hall and to the right
·8· ·(demonstrating.)· So it’s just a central — just a
·9· ·central little location right there.
10· · · ·Q· · ·So when I enter into the front door of
11· ·the town hall —
12· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
13· · · ·Q· · ·– your office would be to my immediate
14· ·right?
15· · · ·A· · ·To — no, to your immediate left, if you
16· ·walk through the door.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And then my — from your office
18· ·then, the immediate left of there would be Ms. Tebo?
19· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
20· · · ·Q· · ·And then there would be a slight, where
21· ·you would come, I guess, out of Ms. Tebo’s office
22· ·and make a slight right, and you would go down the
23· ·hall and there would be Ms. Tomlin- —
24· · · ·A· · ·A slight left —
25· · · ·Q· · ·A slight left, okay
1· · · ·A· · ·– down the hall, and then a right.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· A slight left out of Ms. Tebo’s
·3· ·door —
·4· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·– and then right, and that’s where Ms.
·6· ·Tomlinson’s office will be?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·And you three each have your own
·9· ·offices —
10· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
11· · · ·Q· · ·– with doors that close and open?
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
13· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And then Ms. Rivers would be
14· ·in the middle of the Town Hall, I guess, room?
15· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
16· · · ·Q· · ·And at a desk?
17· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
18· · · ·Q· · ·And, I guess, does she primarily serve as
19· ·a reception for people that come into the Town Hall?
20· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And approximately how far would
22· ·you say your desk is from Ms. Rivers, in feet?
23· · · ·A· · ·Maybe ten, if that.· It could be less, I
24· ·don’t know —
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay
1· · · ·A· · ·– it’s just right there.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Can you see her from your desk?
·3· · · ·A· · ·I can.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Can you — so you both can make
·5· ·eye contact?
·6· · · ·A· · ·Sometimes.· It all depends on what her
·7· ·position on her desk is, because it’s — it’s long
·8· ·(demonstrating.)· So depending on which end she’s
·9· ·at, is whether I can see her or not.· If she comes
10· ·all of the way to the far end, where her drawers and
11· ·stuff are that she needs, I can see her.· And if
12· ·she’s in the middle, I can’t see her, and if she’s
13· ·to the far right, I can’t see her.· So it all
14· ·depends on if she’s working at the lower end.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Are you able to speak to Ms. Rivers from
16· ·your desk, to her desk without getting up?
17· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
18· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Do you have to raise your
19· ·voice to do so, or can you just speak normally?
20· · · ·A· · ·No, sir.
21· · · ·Q· · ·You can speak normal?
22· · · ·A· · ·We speak normal.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· What about Ms. Tebo, are you able
24· ·to speak to Ms. Tebo through your offices, or do you
25· ·have to stand up and physically go over there to
·speak to her?
·2· · · ·A· · ·If I needed to have a conversation with
·3· ·her, I would have to go to her office.· Of course,
·4· ·if she wasn’t busy, I mean, I can pick up the phone
·5· ·and call her.· But to sit there and talk to her,
·6· ·like I could Ms. Rivers, no, I don’t have that
·7· ·opportunity.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·There’s no window between your two
·9· ·offices, it’s just a wall?
10· · · ·A· · ·No, a very thin wall.
11· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· When you say, “very thin,” is that
12· ·something that sometimes you could hear —
13· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
14· · · ·Q· · ·– each other speak?
15· · · ·A· · ·You can.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· What about Ms. Tomlinson, are you
17· ·able to speak to her from your office?
18· · · ·A· · ·No, sir.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Or hear what she’s — hear her speaking
20· ·to you, without raising her voice?
21· · · ·A· · ·Sometimes I can hear her; sometimes
22· ·she — I’m sure she can hear me.· I don’t know —
23· ·you know, it just depends on the conversation and
24· ·the tone.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Is there anybody else in the Town
Hall that maintains an office where you and — and
·2· ·Ms. Tebo and Ms. Tomlinson and Ms. Rivers do?
·3· · · ·A· · ·Kenny does have some — his office is all
·4· ·of the way at the end —
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·6· · · ·A· · ·– but he’s in and out of it, so…
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Kenny who?
·8· · · ·A· · ·Kenny Hutcherson.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
10· · · ·A· · ·He’s the supervisor for Public Works, I
11· ·believe.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Now, as I understand it, he may
13· ·have been — he may be on leave?
14· · · ·A· · ·He is —
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
16· · · ·A· · ·– uh-huh.· And then there’s my old
17· ·office that’s unoccupied, because I — I was next
18· ·door to Ms. Tomlinson, and they moved me up front.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So I’m kind of drawing a little
20· ·diagram here.
21· · · ·A· · ·Let me help you.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Why don’t we do this, I’m going to
23· ·do —
24· · · ·A· · ·All right, let me help you.
25· · · ·Q· · ·I’m going to do it on a different sheet
·of paper, just so I’m —
·2· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·I’ll have you draw it, if you don’t mind.
·4· · · ·A· · ·No, I don’t mind.· I’ll do it for you —
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·6· · · ·A· · ·– and that way we can —
·7· · · ·Q· · ·That way there’s no —
·8· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·When I’m sitting down looking at this a
10· ·week or two from now, I didn’t make a mistake as to
11· ·where I appreciate people being.
12· · · · · · ·(Piece of paper tendered to the witness.)
13· · · ·A· · ·(Witness demonstrating.)
14· · · · · · ·(Document tendered back to Mr. Larkin.)
15· · · ·Q· · ·All right, thank you.· All right.· So if
16· ·I’m looking at this and this is a document you just
17· ·drew, a diagram.· And I’m guessing that these two
18· ·hashes down here (indicating) —
19· · · ·A· · ·The door.
20· · · ·Q· · ·– is the front door?
21· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So you’d come in, and Ms. Rivers’
23· ·desk is, I guess, immediately to the right?
24· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
25· · · ·Q· · ·And then you’re immediately to the left
1· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·And that would be Stacy Tebo, the Town
·3· ·Manager, next to you, and then you can continue down
·4· ·a hall —
·5· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·– and then you would go to the right to
·7· ·Ms. Tomlinson?
·8· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·And this next office is Kenny Hutcherson,
10· ·the last one.· You have a circle over here
11· ·(indicating) —
12· · · ·A· · ·That’s the counsel room, the open —
13· · · ·Q· · ·I see —
14· · · ·A· · ·The open area.
15· · · ·Q· · ·And that’s where the board meetings are?
16· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
17· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And then back here is PD
18· ·(indicating,) for Police Department?
19· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Is that where your officers are?
21· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
22· · · ·Q· · ·How many officers do you have?
23· · · ·A· · ·There’s 11 of us all together, but not 11
24· ·of us work at the same time, so…
25· · · ·Q· · ·You have shifts?
·1· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·And are you 8:00-to-5:00, Monday through
·3· ·Friday?
·4· · · ·A· · ·No, sir.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·What shifts do you work?
·6· · · ·A· · ·I have the guys on an 11-and-a-half
·7· ·rotating shift.· It’s a 28-day calendar, so it’s
·8· ·five on five off, five on four off, four on five
·9· ·off —
10· · · ·Q· · ·I see.
11· · · ·A· · ·– and it’s 11-and-a-half hours to get
12· ·the maximum coverage, but it is Monday — it’s all
13· ·week.· It’s seven days a week.· It’s just shifts —
14· ·I think maybe from 2:00 to when I get there, between
15· ·7:00 or 8:00 in the morning, there’s no coverage.
16· ·Sometimes in — like last night, they were out until
17· ·5:00, so it all depends on —
18· · · ·Q· · ·The calls and —
19· · · ·A· · ·Exactly.
20· · · ·Q· · ·I see.· And I know that one of your
21· ·officers is a gentleman by the last name of Meeks?
22· · · ·A· · ·Brad, yes, sir, Officer Meeks.
23· · · ·Q· · ·And how long have you known Brad Meeks?
24· · · ·A· · ·Since I hired him.
25· · · ·Q· · ·When was that
A· · ·It’s been a few years, about three or
·2· ·four years, maybe.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Do you know a gentleman named
·4· ·Andrew Green?
·5· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·And how do you know him?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Just from working there.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· He is not employed with the
·9· ·Police Department, right?
10· · · ·A· · ·No, sir.
11· · · ·Q· · ·He is, I guess, the Public Utilities or
12· ·Public Works Director?
13· · · ·A· · ·From what I — I really don’t what his —
14· ·I mean, I know he works, and I know his job, but I
15· ·don’t know what his title is.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever socialized with Ms. Rivers
17· ·outside of work?
18· · · ·A· · ·Yes, I have.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And when was that?
20· · · ·A· · ·The first time was a concert that they
21· ·had, Little Jimmy Reed, a blues concert.· She was
22· ·selling tickets, and my husband and I bought a
23· ·couple of tickets, and we went to the concert. I
24· ·would —
25· · · ·Q· · ·Other than purchasing
1· · · ·A· · ·That would be social, right?
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Yes.· I guess, what I’m — what I’m
·3· ·asking is perhaps, something a little more formal
·4· ·than that.· And when I say socialize, I meant you
·5· ·and your husband or you alone would go somewhere
·6· ·with Ms. Rivers, accompany her and — and someone
·7· ·else —
·8· · · ·A· · ·No.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·– or her alone to that concert?
10· · · ·A· · ·No.
11· · · ·Q· · ·You just purchased a ticket from her —
12· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.
13· · · ·Q· · ·– and went with your husband?
14· · · ·A· · ·Right.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
16· · · ·A· · ·But everybody — I mean, there are —
17· ·even the council — a council member was there, but
18· ·that’s still socializing.· I mean, you’re asking me
19· ·if I’ve ever socialized, that’s socializing.
20· · · ·Q· · ·And I apologize for that, for that —
21· · · ·A· · ·But —
22· · · ·Q· · ·– confusion.
23· · · ·A· · ·– no dates, no — it’s professional.
24· · · ·Q· · ·You’ve never been to her house?
25· · · ·A· · ·No
1· · · ·Q· · ·She’s never been to your house, nothing?
·2· · · ·A· · ·No, her husband had — her husband and
·3· ·sons have — they have come to dinner to my house.
·4· ·They have — they’ve been to a dinner.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Was that a specific invite to them, or
·6· ·was that an invite to —
·7· · · ·A· · ·More, yeah, it was for anybody that
·8· ·wanted to come.· And they parked their vehicles when
·9· ·they went on a cruise, but everybody does.· If they
10· ·go — if they fly, I allow — because I live in
11· ·Jacksonville, so I allow people to park at my house,
12· ·that kind of — I mean, but besides that, it’s just
13· ·business, but I — there’s a gray area, and there’s
14· ·black and white, but do I personally hang out with
15· ·anyone, no.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Now, I guess — having, I guess,
17· ·established that — well, who was the town — who
18· ·hires the Police Chief?
19· · · ·A· · ·The Council.
20· · · ·Q· · ·The Council did?
21· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So they appointed, or they hired
23· ·you as the Police Chief?
24· · · ·A· · ·They appointed me.
25· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· So you don’t answer to Ms
1· ·Tebo?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Yes, I do.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Oh, you do, okay.· So that’s your
·4· ·immediate supervisor?
·5· · · ·A· · ·She is the immediate supervisor from our
·6· ·Town Charter, isn’t she?
·7· · · · · · ·MR. KOBERLEIN:· (Nods head.)
·8· ·BY MR. LARKIN:
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· How would you describe your
10· ·relationship with Ms. Rivers?
11· · · ·A· · ·Professional.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
13· · · ·A· · ·I mean, it’s a professional relationship.
14· ·I listen — my relationship with everybody is
15· ·professional, but yet it’s — because of my
16· ·position, I’m also someone that people come to in
17· ·confid- — you know, in confidence, and I listen. I
18· ·mean, so…
19· · · ·Q· · ·Has she ever come to you in confidence?
20· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh, she has.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And have — how many times would
22· ·you say she’s come and spoken to you in confidence?
23· · · ·A· · ·Several.· I mean…
24· · · ·Q· · ·Several.· How about Ms. Tebo, how would
25· ·you characterize your relationship with her?
· · · ·A· · ·Professional.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has she ever come to you in
·3· ·confidence?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Yes, of course.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·And Ms. Tomlinson?
·6· · · ·A· · ·Professional.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·And — and likewise, has she come —
·8· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·– to you in confidence?· Okay.· So would
10· ·you say that one of them has come to you more than
11· ·the others, or are they all about the same?
12· · · ·A· · ·One has come to me more than others.
13· · · ·Q· · ·And who was that?
14· · · ·A· · ·That would me Ms. Rivers.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And when Ms. Rivers comes to you
16· ·in confidence, does she ever come to you and speak
17· ·about issues that are going on in the office that
18· ·relate to Ms. Tomlinson and/or Ms. Tebo?
19· · · ·A· · ·She has.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And how about Mr. Andrew Green?
21· · · ·A· · ·He has.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Anyone else that’s employed with, I
23· ·guess, the Town of White Springs that she has come
24· ·to you in confidence and spoken about?
25· · · ·A· · ·She has
1· · · ·Q· · ·Who?
·2· · · ·A· · ·The Fire Chief, Kenny.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Kenny Hutcherson?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And the Fire Chief, all right.
·6· · · ·A· · ·Now, not the new one.· The older one in
·7· ·the past, Mr. Stith, I’m sorry.· Mr. Steve Stith, I
·8· ·apologize.· I forget we have new people, so…
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· What about any council members?
10· · · ·A· · ·She has.
11· · · ·Q· · ·Tonja Brown?
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
13· · · ·Q· · ·Anyone else?
14· · · ·A· · ·Mr. Jefferson.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And with respect to — and I just
16· ·want to focus in on Tomlinson and Tebo —
17· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
18· · · ·Q· · ·– because I think — and — and Mr.
19· ·Green to some extent, and I — those are the
20· ·individuals I — I believe that she has identified
21· ·the most as having strained relationships with. —
22· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever witnessed a situation where
24· ·Ms. Rivers has attempted to contact Andrew Green,
25· ·and he purposely not respond to her?
· · · ·A· · ·I — I can’t speak of his intent.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·3· · · ·A· · ·You’re asking me to guess why he’s not
·4· ·contacting her.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·6· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know his —
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever witnessed a situation where
·8· ·she has attempted to contact him and has been unable
·9· ·to do so?
10· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
11· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever attempted to contact
12· ·him and been unable to do so?
13· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
14· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Is that something that’s
15· ·happened only a couple of times, or is this a
16· ·frequent issue that you have had?
17· · · ·A· · ·I’ve only had — I don’t contact him a
18· ·lot, so…
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
20· · · ·A· · ·But he — he gets back to me when he can.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Has Ms. Rivers ever told you that she
22· ·feels like Mr. Green is avoiding her or ignoring
23· ·her?
24· · · ·A· · ·She has mentioned that to me.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Do you recall when she’s — when she
· ·mentioned that?
·2· · · ·A· · ·I can’t give you specific times or dates,
·3· ·I’m sorry.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Was it this year?
·5· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Was it in or around March or
·7· ·April of this year, I guess has been recent?
·8· · · ·A· · ·(No audible response.)
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Or has this been ongoing?· Is this
10· ·something that she’s frequently come to you about,
11· ·or is this —
12· · · ·A· · ·I — she mentions it.· I mean, she just
13· ·doesn’t come to me.· I mean, she mentions it, you
14· ·know, where she’s at, at her desk.· I mean, she — I
15· ·can hear her, and she will say, Well, he’s not
16· ·answering me again.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
18· · · ·A· · ·It’s just remarks.· I don’t know if she’s
19· ·addressing me.· I don’t know if — I mean, we’re all
20· ·right there (demonstrating.)· I don’t know who she’s
21· ·addressing, but it’s — I can hear her addressing
22· ·or — or voicing her, you know, concern.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever witnessed a situation where
24· ·she has attempted to contact Mr. Green, not have
25· ·been able to, and then Ms. Tebo immediately attempts
1· ·to do so and is able to contact him?
·2· · · ·A· · ·I can’t say that I have.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has Mr. Rivers ever told you that
·4· ·that was happening?
·5· · · ·A· · ·I think — and please — I mean, I’m
·6· ·trying — you’re asking me to recall things that are
·7· ·none of my business.· I really wouldn’t pay
·8· ·attention to it, because I’ve got so much going on
·9· ·in my own world.· I believe, if I can recall
10· ·correctly, she was upset because she tried to get a
11· ·hold of Mr. Green about whatever it was.· I cannot
12· ·recall what it is, because like I said, it’s just
13· ·bits and pieces that I’m hearing and trying to shut
14· ·out at the same time.
15· · · · · · ·And one of my officers — I believe it
16· ·was Lieutenant Brownfield — she told him that she
17· ·was trying to get a hold of him, and I guess Mr. —
18· ·Lieutenant Brownfield contacted him, and he answered
19· ·his call immediately.· I believe that — I can
20· ·recall that issue, but what it has to entail, I
21· ·don’t know.· I do know that she was upset that she
22· ·had been trying to call him, and he — he didn’t or
23· ·wouldn’t get back to her.· And the lieutenant called
24· ·him and he immediately returned his call, so…
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
1· · · ·A· · ·And I don’t know —
·2· · · ·Q· · ·But, I guess, with respect to — other
·3· ·than that particular recollection, you don’t have a
·4· ·specific recollection of Ms. Tebo doing the same
·5· ·thing — Ms. Rivers not being able to contact Mr.
·6· ·Green, but Ms. Tebo being able to do so?
·7· · · ·A· · ·I wouldn’t pay attention.· That’s not
·8· ·something I would…
·9· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Have you ever witnessed Ms.
10· ·Tomlinson use profanity in the workplace?
11· · · ·A· · ·Witnessed?
12· · · ·Q· · ·Yes, heard her.
13· · · ·A· · ·(No audible response.)
14· · · ·Q· · ·Let me ask it a different way; that’s
15· ·kind of a broad question; in the 14 years, and —
16· ·let me ask it a different way.· Have you ever
17· ·witnessed Ms. Tomlinson tell Ms. Rivers, This is
18· ·your damn job?
19· · · ·A· · ·Yes, I did hear that.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· What did you recall about that
21· ·specific time?
22· · · ·A· · ·I was in the other office at the same
23· ·time.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· You’re referring to the ending
25· ·(indicating)
1· · · ·A· · ·Yes, I was here (indicating,) then.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·So you heard Ms. — so Ms. Tomlinson
·3· ·would have been next door to you?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And was Anita at her desk?
·6· · · ·A· · ·Oh, yes.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·So Ms. Tomlinson — did she make this
·8· ·statement from her office?
·9· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know where she was.· I was in my
10· ·office.· I just went, Oh (demonstrating.)· I was
11· ·like, Oh (demonstrating,) I’m not going out my door.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Do you have any knowledge about
13· ·what precipitated that remark?
14· · · ·A· · ·Absolutely, no.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· You just heard it?
16· · · ·A· · ·I just heard it.
17· · · ·Q· · ·And did Ms. Rivers ever come and talk to
18· ·you about that interaction?
19· · · ·A· · ·I believe she did say something, but I —
20· ·to be honest with you, I pushed it aside.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Do you recall when that remark was made?
22· · · ·A· · ·That was a while ago.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Back in 2016, perhaps?
24· · · ·A· · ·I couldn’t tell you.· I couldn’t tell
25· ·you, I’m sorry
·Q· · ·Okay.· Other than that remark, do you
·2· ·ever recall Ms. Tomlinson making any other remarks
·3· ·like that, towards Ms. Rivers?
·4· · · ·A· · ·No.· I — I mean, there’s — there’s
·5· ·tension there.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Why do you say that?
·7· · · ·A· · ·You could just tell, like, there’s just
·8· ·tension.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·They don’t like — they don’t get along?
10· · · ·A· · ·I don’t that — I don’t — you’re asking
11· ·me to guess again.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Well —
13· · · ·A· · ·I mean, I can tell —
14· · · ·Q· · ·What do you mean by, “tension”?
15· · · ·A· · ·I mean, there’s just certain times I
16· ·don’t — there’s — there’s certain times when
17· ·everything is all right in the world and
18· ·everything’s great and business is going and team
19· ·work is jiving, and everybody’s getting along and
20· ·working together.· And then there’s times where you
21· ·can feel the tension in the air.· You can just feel
22· ·that there’s something not right, that there’s an
23· ·underlying current somewhere, and you just want to
24· ·go in your office and hide in your hole.
25· · · ·Q· · ·And is this tension between Ms. Tomlinson
nd Ms. Rivers, or is it between anybody else?
·2· · · ·A· · ·It depends on the — the day and the
·3· ·circumstances.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Is it ever a sense that you felt
·5· ·that there’s tension between Ms. Tebo and Ms.
·6· ·Rivers?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Recently.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And we’ll get to that in a second.
·9· ·What about — and I guess you’re referring to
10· ·tension between Ms. Tomlinson and Ms. Rivers; is
11· ·that right?
12· · · ·A· · ·(No audible response.)
13· · · ·Q· · ·When you initially said there’s tension.
14· · · ·A· · ·There’s tension.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Between those two?
16· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
17· · · ·Q· · ·What about between Ms. Tomlinson and Ms.
18· ·Tebo, any tension there?
19· · · ·A· · ·Maybe when Ms. Tebo first started.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has that — has that tension —
21· ·you haven’t noticed it since that time?
22· · · ·A· · ·No.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know what that tension was when
24· ·Ms. Tebo first started?
25· · · ·A· · ·No.· I remember Ms. Pam making

 ·statement, Great, another damn woman, that’s all we

·2· ·need.· I mean, when she started…
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Did she make that statement to you —
·4· · · ·A· · ·She just —
·5· · · ·Q· · ·– or was it just in general?
·6· · · ·A· · ·I think she was just talking.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
·8· · · ·A· · ·She was just talking.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Any — anything else that you can recall
10· ·between them?
11· · · ·A· · ·No.· Ms. — Ms. Tebo asked me if I had
12· ·noticed the difference in Mr. Andrews — in Andrew’s
13· ·disposition, since Mr. Stith had left, Steve, the
14· ·previous fire chief.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And she was asking —
16· · · ·A· · ·She asked me if I had noticed a
17· ·difference in Andrew’s attitude.
18· · · ·Q· · ·The new fire chief?
19· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Towards her?
21· · · ·A· · ·No.· Andrew.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Andrew Green?
23· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
24· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Ms. — I — Ms. Tebo asked
25· ·you if you had noticed a difference in Mr. Green’s
·attitude —
·2· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·– towards her?
·4· · · ·A· · ·No, just in general.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And when was that?
·6· · · ·A· · ·I’m not keeping the dates.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Was it this year?
·8· · · ·A· · ·It was after Mr. Stith was released of
·9· ·his duties, and I can’t recall if it was before —
10· ·before the new fire chief was hired or after the new
11· ·fire chief was hired.· It was just in passing —
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
13· · · ·A· · ·– I’m sorry.
14· · · ·Q· · ·And so the new fire chief is Mr. Pittman?
15· · · ·A· · ·Yes, Kevin.
16· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Do you know why Ms. Tebo was
17· ·asking you about Mr. Green’s change in attitude?
18· · · ·A· · ·Because there was — there were some
19· ·issues with the fire department, and I believe there
20· ·was some concerns with attitudes and…
21· · · ·Q· · ·You say there were issues with the fire
22· ·department, what do you mean?
23· · · ·A· · ·I believe there was an instance where
24· ·they put in a purchase order maybe, and it wasn’t
25· ·authorized.· It was supposed to be authorized
1· ·through Ms. Tebo, I believe.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·3· · · ·A· · ·Something — something to that point
·4· ·happened, and…
·5· · · ·Q· · ·When she asked you whether you had
·6· ·perceived any type of change in Mr. Green’s
·7· ·attitude —
·8· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·– what did you say?
10· · · ·A· · ·Absolutely.
11· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And what type of change did you
12· ·perceive him have?
13· · · ·A· · ·More outspoken, more friendly, hi, you
14· ·know, how are you and your day.· I mean, just
15· ·very —
16· · · ·Q· · ·Positive.
17· · · ·A· · ·– very positive, yeah.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So Mr. Green’s attitude was more
19· ·positive towards Ms. Tebo than the prior?
20· · · ·A· · ·Everyone.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Everyone.
22· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, everyone.
23· · · ·Q· · ·He’s more friendly?
24· · · ·A· · ·Come out of his shell, yeah, yeah.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever witnessed Ms.
Rivers, other than, I guess, having some trouble
·2· ·contacting Mr. Green, which we’ve already discussed,
·3· ·any other issues that you and Ms. Rivers’ discussed
·4· ·that Ms. Rivers had with Mr. Green?
·5· · · ·A· · ·Not that I recall.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· What about Ms. Rivers, and — is
·7· ·it Kevin Pittman?
·8· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Any issues — Ms. Rivers ever come to you
10· ·in confidence about him?
11· · · ·A· · ·No.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has — how would you describe your
13· ·relationship with Ms. Tomlinson?
14· · · ·A· · ·Professional.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· You do not socialize with her
16· ·either?
17· · · ·A· · ·I really can’t say that I have, no. I
18· ·mean, besides Christmas parties and office stuff. I
19· ·mean —
20· · · ·Q· · ·General — general attendance?
21· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Not specifically with her?
23· · · ·A· · ·Right.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, but you’ve worked with her the
25· ·longest of Ms. Tebo and Ms. Rivers, right?
·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·And Ms. Tomlinson, is she outspoken, is
·3· ·she — is she — when she comes to you in
·4· ·confidence — well, let me ask it a different way.
·5· ·When she comes to you in confidence, what are things
·6· ·that she talks to you about?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Well, it wouldn’t be confidence if I told
·8· ·you, now would it.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Fair enough.· Has she ever complained to
10· ·you about Ms. Rivers?
11· · · ·A· · ·No.
12· · · ·Q· · ·What about Ms. Tebo?
13· · · ·A· · ·No.
14· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So the issues that she’s coming to
15· ·you about are not work related, with respect to
16· ·those two?
17· · · ·A· · ·No.· It’s — no.
18· · · ·Q· · ·And Ms. Tebo, when she comes to you in
19· ·confidence, does she come and complain about Ms.
20· ·Rivers or Ms. Tomlinson?
21· · · ·A· · ·No.
22· · · ·Q· · ·So the issues that she’s coming to speak
23· ·to you about are unrelated to them?
24· · · ·A· · ·I do take that back.· Not Ms. Rivers, but
25· ·once again, I’m not going to get into the
confidence…
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Fair enough, but it — when she comes and
·3· ·speaks to you, Ms. Tebo, she’s not coming to you
·4· ·about Ms. Rivers?
·5· · · ·A· · ·Not Ms. Rivers.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, but when Ms. Rivers comes to you
·7· ·and speaks to you, she is coming to you about Ms.
·8· ·Tebo or Ms. Tomlinson or other individuals?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
10· · · ·Q· · ·And they are work-place issues that she’s
11· ·coming to talk to you about?
12· · · ·A· · ·That she makes comments about, yeah, how
13· ·she feels.
14· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has she ever intimated to you that
15· ·she’s being discriminated against?
16· · · ·A· · ·See, now you’re asking me to get into the
17· ·confidence again.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· She has made this complaint, and
19· ·she has identified you as somebody that I should
20· ·speak to.· If you’re uncomfortable telling me, and
21· ·you want to — that’s fine.· This is not a
22· ·deposition.
23· · · ·A· · ·I understand.
24· · · ·Q· · ·I’m not here to force that issue.
25· · · ·A· · ·Well, you’re asking — see, I don’t want
to break somebody’s confidence.· When somebody
·2· ·confides in you, it’s because they’re — they don’t
·3· ·want you to repeat what they’re —
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·5· · · ·A· · ·– what they’re telling you.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·I’ll try to ask you some more specific
·7· ·questions then.
·8· · · ·A· · ·Okay.· I’m not trying to be difficult; I
·9· ·just…
10· · · ·Q· · ·I understand.
11· · · ·A· · ·I’m a peace keeper.· I like to keep the
12· ·peace.
13· · · ·Q· · ·Between who?
14· · · ·A· · ·Between everybody.· I mean —
15· · · ·Q· · ·Between Ms. Tomlinson —
16· · · ·A· · ·Everybody.
17· · · ·Q· · ·– Ms. Tebo and Ms. Rivers?
18· · · ·A· · ·Everybody, yes.
19· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
20· · · ·A· · ·Team work.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Has she ever come and complained about
22· ·Ms. Tomlinson smoking E-cigarettes in the office?
23· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
24· · · ·Q· · ·And do you know whether that issue was
25· ·ever addressed with Ms. Tomlinson, by Ms. Tebo?
1· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Has Ms. Tomlinson stopped smoking
·3· ·E-cigarettes in the office?
·4· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever complained about Ms.
·6· ·Tomlinson smoking E-cigarettes?
·7· · · ·A· · ·No.
·8· · · · · · ·MR. KOBERLEIN:· Can we go off-the record
·9· · · ·for the minute?
10· · · · · · ·(Off-the-record discussion.)
11· ·BY MR. LARKIN:
12· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever complained about Ms.
13· ·Tomlinson?
14· · · ·A· · ·When you say, have I ever complained,
15· ·what do you mean, official complaint?
16· · · ·Q· · ·Well, have you ever gone to a town
17· ·manager —
18· · · ·A· · ·No.
19· · · ·Q· · ·– whether it be —
20· · · ·A· · ·No, I wouldn’t.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever drafted a letter of
22· ·complaint?
23· · · ·A· · ·I wouldn’t.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever gone to Ms. Tomlinson and
25· ·said, I’m not happy with —
A· · ·I wouldn’t, no.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And so when — have you ever just
·3· ·griped about her to somebody else?
·4· · · ·A· · ·To myself.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
·6· · · ·A· · ·Can I hold that in confidence?
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Yes, you can, absolutely.· You have never
·8· ·made a formal complaint about her, in writing, to
·9· ·somebody of authority, right?
10· · · ·A· · ·No.
11· · · ·Q· · ·And have you ever made a formal complaint
12· ·about Andrew Green, in writing, to someone of
13· ·authority?
14· · · ·A· · ·No.
15· · · ·Q· · ·How about Stacy Tebo?
16· · · ·A· · ·No.
17· · · ·Q· · ·How about Anita Rivers?
18· · · ·A· · ·No.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever, or were you — do
20· ·you have any first-hand knowledge of a social media
21· ·post that Ms. Rivers made in or around March of this
22· ·year concerning a May Day celebration?
23· · · ·A· · ·I don’t have Facebook.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
25· · · ·A· · ·I don’t have –
Q· · ·So you don’t know whether she did or she
·2· ·didn’t?
·3· · · ·A· · ·No.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Has she ever told you that she made a
·5· ·Facebook post —
·6· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·– and then got in some type of trouble
·8· ·for it?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
10· · · ·Q· · ·What did she tell you?
11· · · ·A· · ·She said that she was addressing, I
12· ·guess, some of the rules that we had set down at a
13· ·May Day meeting about golf carts and block parties,
14· ·and — and I can’t remember — I think there was one
15· ·more thing she said, and I think she — when I say,
16· ·I think, I’m saying that the words I’m using aren’t
17· ·necessarily her words —
18· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
19· · · ·A· · ·– verbatim.· So I guess Ms. Tebo
20· ·approached her about what she puts on her social
21· ·media, so…
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
23· · · ·A· · ·Pertaining to the town.
24· · · ·Q· · ·And did Ms. Rivers believe that Ms. Tebo
25· ·was being overly critical of her, or somehow
violating her rights?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.· She said that she didn’t think she
·3· ·had a right to tell her what she could put on her
·4· ·social media.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know whether Ms. Rivers received
·6· ·any type of discipline for posting that?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Not that I’m aware of.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Other than that particular issue
·9· ·regarding the May Day celebration, any other issues
10· ·that she’s come to you about her Facebook posts and
11· ·being counseled by Ms. Tebo?
12· · · ·A· · ·I believe she has to take a class.
13· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· At some point, Ms. Tebo asked her
14· ·to take a webinar on social media?
15· · · ·A· · ·Right.
16· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Do you know why?
17· · · ·A· · ·I didn’t ask.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Did Ms. Rivers come and tell you or
19· ·complain to you that she was being made to do this
20· ·webinar on social media?
21· · · ·A· · ·Because she thought that — that that was
22· ·her feelings as to why she had to take it; is that
23· ·what you’re asking me?
24· · · ·Q· · ·Because of the May Day celebration post,
25· ·she had to take a webinar —
1· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Was she unhappy about that?
·3· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Did she think Ms. Tebo was discriminated
·5· ·against her because of that or retaliating because
·6· ·of her —
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes, she did.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Any — any other — anything else
·9· ·that Ms. Rivers said to you about her Facebook posts
10· ·or having to get training?
11· · · ·A· · ·No.
12· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Were you ever — did you ever
13· ·witness — or Ms. Rivers ever come in and complain
14· ·to you about a cash drawer shortage, where back in
15· ·October of last year, the cash drawer was short, I
16· ·believe, by $512.76 or thereabout; do you recall
17· ·that being a particular issue?
18· · · ·A· · ·I remember — I remember that
19· ·conversation only because I said, when I bartended a
20· ·long time ago, that if I had to share a till with
21· ·anyone, I refused to — to operate the cash register
22· ·at all, because I’ve never worked in a place where
23· ·you’ve had to share a till.· Because you’re
24· ·responsible for that money, so I could understand
25· ·her angst
1· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·2· · · ·A· · ·I heard her vocalize her concern and —
·3· ·and she’s scared because she’s going to get — she
·4· ·thought she would be the one getting blamed when Ms.
·5· ·Pam makes mistakes continuously, because of right,
·6· ·wrong or indifferent.· And it was just a
·7· ·conversation, it wasn’t really — that’s the only
·8· ·way — that’s the only reason I can remember that is
·9· ·because —
10· · · ·Q· · ·When you say that this was just a
11· ·conversation, this wasn’t Ms. Rivers coming to you
12· ·specifically?
13· · · ·A· · ·No.· It was just a conversation, an open
14· ·area conversation.· I mean, anybody that would have
15· ·walked in at the time could have joined in on that
16· ·conversation.
17· · · ·Q· · ·So was Ms. Tebo present?
18· · · ·A· · ·I don’t — I don’t know if she was or she
19· ·wasn’t.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Was Ms. Tomlinson present?
21· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know if she was or she wasn’t,
22· ·like I —
23· · · ·Q· · ·Ms. Rivers was sitting out in the —
24· · · ·A· · ·I —
25· · · ·Q· · ·– area —
1· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, I believe so.· I believe I walked
·2· ·up front to do something, and — and it was just
·3· ·conversation.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·A conversation between you and her?
·5· · · ·A· · ·No.· It was just — she’ll talk out loud.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·To nobody?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.· She’ll just talk out loud, and if
·8· ·you’re there — and if you’re there, and — you
·9· ·know, what do you say?
10· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· So is it fair to say that she
11· ·was talking to herself, and you happened to be
12· ·there?
13· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, she was just talking.
14· · · ·Q· · ·I see, okay.· And do you recall anybody
15· ·else being there?
16· · · ·A· · ·I don’t.· I don’t.
17· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And you, I guess, based on
18· ·your prior employment history, I guess understood
19· ·the nature of what her complaint was —
20· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.
21· · · ·Q· · ·– or what she was saying?
22· · · ·A· · ·I could understand.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Is that — you made a statement, though,
24· ·that Ms. Tomlinson is constantly making mistakes; is
25· ·that something that she was saying?
1· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·That’s not something that you had
·3· ·first-hand knowledge of?
·4· · · ·A· · ·No.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Because you don’t supervise Ms.
·6· ·Tomlinson, do you?
·7· · · ·A· · ·No, I do not.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·So she was worried that Ms. Tomlinson has
·9· ·access to the same cash drawer, Ms. Tomlinson is
10· ·constantly making mistakes, and she’s going to get
11· ·blamed for it?
12· · · ·A· · ·Exactly.
13· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And do you know whether any
14· ·of that was ever communicated to Ms. Tebo?
15· · · ·A· · ·I do not.
16· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· When Ms. Rivers comes to you
17· ·in confidence about whatever the issue is, have you
18· ·ever gone to Ms. Tebo and told her about those
19· ·conversations?
20· · · ·A· · ·I do not.
21· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Likewise, with Ms. Tebo, do
22· ·you ever go and speak to Ms. Rivers or Ms.
23· ·Tomlinson?
24· · · ·A· · ·I do not.
25· · · ·Q· · ·And lastly, Ms. Tomlinson, if she — has
·she ever come to you in confidence, have you ever
·2· ·conveyed that to anybody else?
·3· · · ·A· · ·I did not.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·So when these people come to you, you
·5· ·internalize their positions and —
·6· · · ·A· · ·Yes, I do.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·– do not go and tell any of them about
·8· ·it?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Right.· There would be a whole lot of…
10· · · ·Q· · ·Well — and just — let me just go back,
11· ·just to make sure that I’m clear; has Ms. Tomlinson
12· ·ever come to you and said, I am being discriminated
13· ·against and/or harassed?
14· · · ·A· · ·She hasn’t said that to me.
15· · · ·Q· · ·She hasn’t said those words to you, okay.
16· ·And what about Ms. Rivers, has she ever said those
17· ·words, I am being discriminated against and/or
18· ·harassed?
19· · · ·A· · ·She has.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And has she — when she says that,
21· ·is she attributing that behavior or the
22· ·discrimination to Ms. Tomlinson and/or Ms. Tebo?
23· · · ·A· · ·I believe, both.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Does she tell you a reason, like
25· ·she says this is because of my race or because I’m a
woman or because —
·2· · · ·A· · ·Race.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·So she believes — she’s told you that
·4· ·they are discriminating against me or harassing me,
·5· ·because I’m black?
·6· · · ·A· · ·Because of her race, yes.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And — but even though she
·8· ·intimated that to you, you have not told anybody
·9· ·about that?
10· · · ·A· · ·No.
11· · · ·Q· · ·Have you encouraged her to go —
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
13· · · ·Q· · ·– and file a complaint —
14· · · ·A· · ·I haven’t encouraged her to file a
15· ·complaint.· I’ve encouraged her to speak with her
16· ·supervisor.
17· · · ·Q· · ·And that would be Ms. Tebo?
18· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
19· · · ·Q· · ·And do you know whether she has?
20· · · ·A· · ·I don’t.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· How many times has she come to you
22· ·and said discrimination or harassment based on her
23· ·race?
24· · · ·A· · ·Quite a bit.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Do you recall when the complaints about
ace, harassment or discrimination started?
·2· · · ·A· · ·No.· I’m sorry.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever seen a copy of Ms.
·4· ·Rivers’ written complaint that — I guess, regarding
·5· ·the issues she’s having at the — at work?
·6· · · ·A· · ·No, I have not.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Have you ever witnessed any
·8· ·action by Ms. Tebo, that has — that was taken
·9· ·against Ms. Rivers that you thought was because of
10· ·Ms. Rivers’ race — have you ever witnessed anything
11· ·that Ms. Tebo has done to Ms. Rivers that you
12· ·thought was discriminatory or because she’s African
13· ·American?
14· · · ·A· · ·You’re asking my opinion?
15· · · ·Q· · ·Yes, I am.
16· · · ·A· · ·No.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· What about Ms. Tomlinson?
18· · · ·A· · ·Probably not, no, no.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Nothing sticks out, you sitting here
20· ·today that have — that you can recall going back
21· ·and saying, that was discriminatory or — or that
22· ·wasn’t fair, and that was because of Ms. Rivers’
23· ·race?
24· · · ·A· · ·I can’t — I can’t tell you — I can’t
25· ·speculate.· I can’t even give you an opinion.  I
can’t tell you how Ms. Rivers is feeling.· If she
·2· ·feels that she’s being discriminated because she’s
·3· ·black, it’s the same thing as you winking at me and
·4· ·I wink, and you wink at her, and she doesn’t — and
·5· ·it’s not comfortable.· I mean, it’s all perception.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, but your perception is what I’m
·7· ·asking about.
·8· · · ·A· · ·I know.· You’re asking me —
·9· · · ·Q· · ·So —
10· · · ·A· · ·You’re asking me to — to say how Ms. Pam
11· ·and Ms. Tebo is treating Ms. Rivers, and — and how
12· ·Ms. Rivers is taking it.· I mean, she’s taking her
13· ·treatment that way, but it doesn’t necessarily mean
14· ·that that’s how she’s being treated.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Right.
16· · · ·A· · ·But that’s how she feels.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, but I’m asking you now, not about
18· ·Ms. — not about how Ms. Rivers feels, but how have
19· ·you felt about anything that you’ve witnessed
20· ·between them.
21· · · ·A· · ·There have been times that I have been
22· ·uncomfortable for her.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· What are those times; what — if
24· ·you could tell me, what are some specific examples
25· ·of times where you have felt uncomfortable for Ms
·Rivers?
·2· · · ·A· · ·When she’s yelled at.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Who’s yelled at her?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Ms. Pam has yelled at her.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Ms. Tomlinson?
·6· · · ·A· · ·Yes, Ms. Tomlinson.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And — and I know that I mentioned
·8· ·earlier where she said, That is your damn job —
·9· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
10· · · ·Q· · ·– is that one of those times?
11· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And are there others?
13· · · ·A· · ·There are others.· There’s been —
14· ·there’s quite a few instances.· I just don’t have
15· ·them in writing, and — nor have I written them
16· ·down, nor would I because…
17· · · ·Q· · ·Other than Ms. Tomlinson raising her
18· ·voice or yelling at her —
19· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
20· · · ·Q· · ·– is there anything that she’s said
21· ·that’s racial?
22· · · ·A· · ·Towards Ms. Rivers?
23· · · ·Q· · ·Yes, ma’am.
24· · · ·A· · ·Not — not that I’m aware of, no.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Nothing that you’ve heard?
1· · · ·A· · ·Not — not that I’m aware of.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Let’s go to Ms. Tebo, have you ever
·3· ·had —
·4· · · ·A· · ·No.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·– witnessed a situation between Ms. Tebo
·6· ·and Ms. Rivers that made you uncomfortable?
·7· · · ·A· · ·No.· I mean…
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· There was a — in March of this
·9· ·year —
10· · · ·A· · ·I thought they had a pretty good
11· ·relationship, though.
12· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Why do you say that?
13· · · ·A· · ·It just — before I broke my leg, and Ms.
14· ·Tebo was new and everything, they were — it seemed
15· ·like they had a very good rapport with one another.
16· · · ·Q· · ·I’m sorry.· You said you broke your leg?
17· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, I broke my leg.
18· · · ·Q· · ·When was that?
19· · · ·A· · ·December 5th — not this year.· What
20· ·was — 2015.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
22· · · ·A· · ·December 5th, 2015.
23· · · ·Q· · ·And were you out of the office?
24· · · ·A· · ·Oh, yeah.
25· · · ·Q· · ·For how long?
A· · ·I don’t think I came back until March or
·2· ·April.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Was it work related?
·4· · · ·A· · ·What?
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Your — your break.
·6· · · ·A· · ·Oh, absolutely not.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· So for those three or four
·8· ·months, you were out of the office —
·9· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
10· · · ·Q· · ·– so maybe until April of 2016?
11· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
12· · · ·Q· · ·So from April of 2016 until now, you have
13· ·been in the office?
14· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Yes?
16· · · ·A· · ·Yes, off and on.
17· · · ·Q· · ·And, I guess — just so it’s clear for
18· ·the record, you haven’t witnessed anything between
19· ·Ms. Tebo and Ms. Rivers that has made you
20· ·uncomfortable?
21· · · ·A· · ·I haven’t witnessed anything, as in eyes
22· ·(demonstrating.)· I mean, one day, I was alarmed —
23· ·can I use that word?
24· · · ·Q· · ·Yes.
25· · · ·A· · ·I was in my office working, and I could
·hear chatter.· Don’t ask me what was being said,
·2· ·because once again, it was blocked.· You can hear
·3· ·voices, but you’re not paying attention to what the
·4· ·conversation is because you’re working.· So I’m
·5· ·working, but I can hear voices, but the tone changed
·6· ·and quickly raised into a level that I was like,
·7· ·it’s — I — it took me back, and I was this close
·8· ·(demonstrating) of walking out of my office, to see
·9· ·what the commotion was, and why it was happening,
10· ·because I was — like I said, it — I was alarmed.
11· ·When — when people are talking, and it goes from
12· ·one level to another level, I go from comfort- —
13· ·from comfortable, to okay, I need to be alert here,
14· ·because I don’t know what’s going on.· I don’t know
15· ·if somebody’s coming in the back door.· I don’t know
16· ·what’s — I don’t know what’s happening, but it
17· ·was — it got my attention that I wanted to come out
18· ·of the office to say — to see what was going on.
19· · · · · · ·I didn’t, because at that time, Ms.
20· ·Rivers came to this end (indicating) of her desk,
21· ·and she was visibly shaking.· And I called her into
22· ·my office, and I shut the door, and I tried to calm
23· ·her down and — and told her to breathe and relax —
24· · · ·Q· · ·What —
25· · · ·A· · ·– and asked her what was going on.  I
mean —
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· We’ll go back through this a
·3· ·little bit.· Was that this year?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Was that back in, maybe March this year?
·6· · · ·A· · ·I can’t — I don’t know.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Did that concern any statement that Ms.
·8· ·Tebo said something to the effect, when raising her
·9· ·voice, Just stop it, just stop it?
10· · · ·A· · ·That — I believe that’s exactly what she
11· ·said.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And she was — when you — when
13· ·you heard the voices elevate —
14· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
15· · · ·Q· · ·– that was — you heard Ms. Tebo —
16· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
17· · · ·Q· · ·– raise her voice at Ms. Rivers saying
18· ·to, Just stop it?
19· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know who it was at.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
21· · · ·A· · ·I didn’t see, I just heard.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So you heard Ms. Tebo raise her
23· ·voice and say something to that effect?
24· · · ·A· · ·Right.
25· · · ·Q· · ·And then you saw Ms. Rivers visibly
1· ·shaking —
·2· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·– and that is when you had asked Ms.
·4· ·Rivers to come into your office —
·5· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·– and shut the door?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Did Ms. Rivers tell you that Ms. Tebo had
·9· ·yelled at her —
10· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
11· · · ·Q· · ·– or raised her voice?
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
13· · · ·Q· · ·Was she crying?
14· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
15· · · ·Q· · ·What else — is that all she told you;
16· ·was there anything else?
17· · · ·A· · ·She said, I — she’s never been talked to
18· ·like this in her life, and she doesn’t understand
19· ·why she’s being talked to like this, and she’s tired
20· ·of being treated like this, and it’s got to stop.
21· ·And I just told her to breathe, calm down, just
22· ·relax, just take it easy.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And was she able to calm down?
24· · · ·A· · ·I got her calmed down.
25· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· About how long did it take
you?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Probably about ten minutes.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Did Ms. Rivers then go back out
·4· ·and work, or did she go home?
·5· · · ·A· · ·She composed herself in the restroom and
·6· ·stayed working.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
·8· · · ·A· · ·I wanted her to go home, but that’s not
·9· ·my call, nor am I her supervisor.
10· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Did you ever go and talk to Ms.
11· ·Tebo and —
12· · · ·A· · ·No, no, no, absolutely, I wouldn’t.
13· · · ·Q· · ·And to this day, you don’t know what that
14· ·issue —
15· · · ·A· · ·No —
16· · · ·Q· · ·– pertained to?
17· · · ·A· · ·– I do not.· I’m sorry, I don’t.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Do you know whether anybody else
19· ·witnessed that incident?
20· · · ·A· · ·I believe — I believe Officer Meeks was
21· ·at the copier.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
23· · · ·A· · ·I believe, I was — and then Office —
24· ·Officer Meeks, and I want to say he told me — he
25· ·told me that he was at the copier, and he said — he
1· ·said it stood him up.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And did he tell you that before or
·3· ·after you spoke to Ms. Rivers?
·4· · · ·A· · ·After.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So this is something that he came
·6· ·to you after everything had calmed down?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·And he told you what he witnessed?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
10· · · ·Q· · ·Is that all he told you is that I saw —
11· ·that I — I witnessed this at the copier, or did he
12· ·have a particular point of view?
13· · · ·A· · ·He said that — he said that he walked —
14· ·he told her that he was sorry that she had to put up
15· ·with that.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Did you and Mr. Meeks, Officer
17· ·Meeks, talk anymore about that incident?
18· · · ·A· · ·No.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know if Officer Meeks ever went to
20· ·anybody and talked, complained about that?
21· · · ·A· · ·He wouldn’t — not that I’m aware of. I
22· ·haven’t been told.
23· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· What about the Fire Chief,
24· ·Mr. Pittman, have you ever had a conversation with
25· ·him about it?
1· · · ·A· · ·Not to my — no.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·To your knowledge, was he a witness to
·3· ·what occurred?
·4· · · ·A· · ·I don’t — I don’t know.· I don’t know if
·5· ·he was or he wasn’t — I know he was in my office —
·6· ·you know what, he was in my office earlier.· That’s
·7· ·right, he was in my office, because we were doing
·8· ·the USDA grant for the —
·9· · · · · · ·MR. KOBERLEIN:· Cars.
10· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· — the cars and the trucks,
11· · · ·and I’m helping him with that.· And he was in
12· · · ·our office checking on that, and, I believe, he
13· · · ·said he had to go see Ms. Tebo.· So I don’t
14· · · ·know where he was at.
15· ·BY MR. LARKIN:
16· · · ·Q· · ·So you don’t know if he saw it or heard
17· ·it or not?
18· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
20· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know where he was at —
21· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
22· · · ·A· · ·– but I know he had just walked out of
23· ·my office.
24· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Other than this particular
25· ·incident that we’ve talked about, where Ms. Tebo
·allegedly said, Just stop it; any other time that
·2· ·you can recall Ms. Rivers’ crying at work?
·3· · · ·A· · ·No.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Any other time that you had brought Ms.
·5· ·Rivers into your office and had to calm her down and
·6· ·talk to her about workplace issues?
·7· · · ·A· · ·There were a few times when I was in the
·8· ·back office, I just had her come in and sit down and
·9· ·relax, because her and Pam were going at it.
10· · · ·Q· · ·And that would be the empty office on the
11· ·diagram?
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
13· · · ·Q· · ·And when did you go from the empty
14· ·office, to your office?
15· · · ·A· · ·When Mr. Andrew moved into the new fire
16· ·building.
17· · · ·Q· · ·When Mr. Andrew Green —
18· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
19· · · ·Q· · ·– moved into the new fire building?
20· · · ·A· · ·Right.· They built a new building.
21· · · ·Q· · ·But sitting here today, you don’t know
22· ·when that date was?
23· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know.
24· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And — but I guess, we could
25· ·figure that date out.· So–
1· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·– when you were in the empty office, on
·3· ·your diagram (indicating) —
·4· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Ms. Rivers would come and complain about
·6· ·Pam?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.· About — with the cigarettes
·8· ·making her head ache and making her sick to her
·9· ·stomach.
10· · · ·Q· · ·And when she would come to you about
11· ·that, would you have — what would you tell her?
12· · · ·A· · ·To talk to Stacy.
13· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And do you know if she ever
14· ·did?
15· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know.· I’m — I think she told me
16· ·that she did.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And do you know whether that issue
18· ·was resolved?
19· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know.· I —
20· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
21· · · ·A· · ·– don’t get into…
22· · · ·Q· · ·Other than the issue that we’ve just
23· ·described about Ms. Tebo raising her voice to Ms.
24· ·Rivers, have you witnessed any other instances where
25· ·Ms. Tebo has raised her voice in the workplace?
1· · · ·A· · ·I believe over Mr. Griffin.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·That would be Joe Griffin?
·3· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·And he’s a citizen?
·5· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Was Ms. Tebo raising her
·7· ·voice about Mr. Griffin towards any employee, or was
·8· ·it in general?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Just venting.
10· · · ·Q· · ·Just venting?
11· · · ·A· · ·Sure.
12· · · ·Q· · ·And has Ms. Rivers come to you about
13· ·any — any relate — any issue relating to Mr.
14· ·Griffin and Ms. Tebo?
15· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
16· · · ·Q· · ·What about?
17· · · ·A· · ·She feels that the way the man is
18· ·treated, although, he’s not liked, and he does
19· ·things that people don’t like, and he’s a pain in
20· ·the butt and so on and so forth, that he should
21· ·still have the same respect as any other citizen.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
23· · · ·A· · ·And that he should still be treated the
24· ·same as any other citizen.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Ms. Rivers has come and expressed that to
·you?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, in conversation, yes.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever witnessed anything that —
·4· ·that was any type of treatment with Mr. Griffin,
·5· ·that was consistent with what she is — was telling
·6· ·you?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· By who?
·9· · · ·A· · ·I’m going to have to start looking for a
10· ·job.· Thank you, Mr. Larkin.
11· · · · · · ·By Ms. Tebo and Mr. Tomlinson — or Ms.
12· ·Tomlinson.
13· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· That you have witnessed them being
14· ·critical or — or —
15· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Of Mr. Griffin?
17· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
18· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And Mr. Rivers has come to
19· ·you about that?
20· · · ·A· · ·I — she’s not come to me.· I mean, it’s
21· ·witnessed.· You’re asking me what — now, you’re
22· ·asking me what I’ve seen.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Yeah.
24· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, that’s what you’re asking me.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay
· · · ·A· · ·Okay.· So yes, I’ve — I’ve heard it, the
·2· ·frustration, the venting.· I mean, do I understand
·3· ·it?· Yes.· Do I agree with it?· Sometimes.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·But none of that was directed at Ms.
·5· ·Rivers?
·6· · · ·A· · ·No.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·8· · · ·A· · ·But you’re asking me if I’ve heard
·9· ·other — you asked me, I believe, if I have ever
10· ·heard other voices being raised or other —
11· · · ·Q· · ·I did.
12· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, so — and that’s a yes.
13· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And that was — that was
14· ·(indiscernible) —
15· · · ·A· · ·But that’s related to Mr. Griffin, right?
16· · · ·Q· · ·Apart from the one —
17· · · ·A· · ·Right.
18· · · ·Q· · ·– related to Ms. Rivers and —
19· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
20· · · ·Q· · ·– and the ones related Mr. Griffin?
21· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Any other times —
23· · · ·A· · ·Not — not that I recall, no.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has Ms. Rivers ever come to you
25· ·and claimed that she’s being denied the opportunity
· ·to go to training for clerk duties?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·And that Ms. Tomlinson was either denying
·4· ·her from being permitted to go?
·5· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Do you recall when she did that?
·7· · · ·A· · ·I believe it was when Mr. Lawrence was
·8· ·there.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Since Mr. Lawrence has left, do you
10· ·recall her coming to you about those issues?
11· · · ·A· · ·I believe she’s made a couple of comments
12· ·where she just gives up.· She — she’s wanted
13· ·training, she just gives up, because she’s — she’s
14· ·told, No.
15· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Do you know whether she’s —
16· ·the — the training that she’s requested are — were
17· ·pertaining to the position description that she has
18· ·or her job duties?
19· · · ·A· · ·I — I don’t know what her job
20· ·description is, I’m sorry.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has she ever come to you and
22· ·complained that she’s not being permitted to be a
23· ·poll worker in an upcoming election?
24· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
1· · · ·A· · ·Yes, that was — that was a — because
·2· ·she went up, she — I believe she said that — if I
·3· ·understand it correctly, okay — Ms. Tebo said she
·4· ·could be a poll worker and — but she needed — I
·5· ·guess she had to have a training, and she went —
·6· ·she took her lunchtime and went to Jasper to get the
·7· ·training —
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Did you witness Ms. Tebo say that to her,
·9· ·or is that what Ms. Rivers said to you?
10· · · ·A· · ·I believe that’s what Ms. Rivers said to
11· ·me, but I do recall a conversation between her and
12· ·Ms. Tebo that day.· I just did not hear what Ms.
13· ·Tebo was saying —
14· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
15· · · ·A· · ·– okay, I could only hear half of the
16· ·conversation.
17· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
18· · · ·A· · ·Okay, but I do know that Ms. Tebo was
19· ·talking to her about how to be a — a poll working
20· ·and what needed to be done —
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
22· · · ·A· · ·– and that.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Was that on the telephone, or were they
24· ·in person?
25· · · ·A· · ·No, it was in person.
1· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
·2· · · ·A· · ·So it was at the office, and I know that
·3· ·Ms. Tebo didn’t — was uncomfortable with Pam doing
·4· ·it, because Mr. Griffin was alleging, “tainting the
·5· ·process again,” so she was uncomfortable with Ms.
·6· ·Tomlinson being there.· And I know Ms. Anita went
·7· ·up, took the training, came back.· And then, I
·8· ·guess, she was going to be a poll worker, and then
·9· ·didn’t, so…
10· · · ·Q· · ·Did Ms. Rivers come and tell you that Ms.
11· ·Tebo wouldn’t let her be a poll worker?
12· · · ·A· · ·She — she did.
13· · · ·Q· · ·And did she believe that that was unfair
14· ·treatment or discriminatory?
15· · · ·A· · ·She did.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Did she tell you why Ms. Tebo
17· ·denied her the opportunity to be a poll worker?
18· · · ·A· · ·She said — she said she didn’t
19· ·understand what was going on, because one day it was
20· ·okay, and then the next day it’s not.· And she
21· ·doesn’t understand what was going on.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know whether Ms. Tebo permitted
23· ·any other town employee to be a poll worker?
24· · · ·A· · ·I’m not aware.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has Ms. Rivers ever come to you
·1· ·and complained that she was being excluded from
·2· ·meetings with the auditor, Ken Daniels?
·3· · · ·A· · ·She — she has made those statements
·4· ·with — with several people, that they’ve had
·5· ·meetings with — that she felt that she should be
·6· ·involved, because she — her duties entail some of
·7· ·that stuff, that they’re wrapped around what she
·8· ·does.· And it’s important for her to know what was
·9· ·going on, so she can ask her questions, because when
10· ·the meetings are over, and they ask her to do
11· ·something, they can’t explain it to her.· And she
12· ·feels that if she was part of the meetings that she
13· ·would have the opportunity to ask the questions that
14· ·she would like to know, instead of trying to learn
15· ·afterwards, because when she asks they’re — they’re
16· ·not explained to her.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Who were — who are the
18· ·individuals that she’s claiming that she’s been
19· ·denied from being in meetings with?
20· · · ·A· · ·I believe — I want to say the phones
21· ·were one instance, when they changed the phone
22· ·system.· I want to say the billing system.· I want
23· ·to say the fin- — the bank came there one time; I
24· ·think she said something about that, payroll.
25· · · · · · ·And they just had a meeting recently, and

 1· ·I cannot for the life of me recall what that was

·2· ·about.· I’m sorry, I apologize.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· When she — when she’s come to you
·4· ·and talked to you about the phone system, billing
·5· ·system, bank meeting, payroll, things of that
·6· ·nature, is she saying that, Ms. Tebo is excluding me
·7· ·from these meetings?
·8· · · ·A· · ·She says, “they.”
·9· · · ·Q· · ·They.· Is she referring to Ms. Tebo and
10· ·Ms. Tomlinson?
11· · · ·A· · ·I would assume.· And I hate to assume,
12· ·because I hate that word.· I would assume it’s
13· ·whoever makes the meetings and is handling the
14· ·meetings.
15· · · ·Q· · ·This has been an ongoing complaint that
16· ·she’s —
17· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
18· · · ·Q· · ·– been making to you?
19· · · ·A· · ·Well, she doesn’t come to me and make —
20· ·it’s just conversation, but it’s a complaint. I
21· ·mean, it’s complaining.
22· · · ·Q· · ·When you hear — when you say, “it’s just
23· ·conversation,” is this more of a situation where
24· ·she’s sitting at her desk, talking —
25· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
· · · ·Q· · ·– to no one, and you hear?
·2· · · ·A· · ·No, she’s sitting at her desk talking out
·3· ·loud.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·But not to you specifically?
·5· · · ·A· · ·Sometimes.· Sometimes, I’ll — I mean,
·6· ·she’ll just — she’ll just start a conversation,
·7· ·and — I’m working, and she’ll start something, and
·8· ·I’ll say, Are you talking to me.· And she’ll say,
·9· ·Yes, or she’ll say, No, I’m just talking.· And
10· ·I’ll — what’s going on, and it’s just — it’s
11· ·office chat.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, but that’s the — those are the
13· ·types of meetings that she’s complaining —
14· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
15· · · ·Q· · ·– being excluded from?
16· · · ·A· · ·Right.
17· · · ·Q· · ·When she’s made these statements —
18· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
19· · · ·Q· · ·– and you’ve heard them, whether they’re
20· ·to you or not —
21· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.
22· · · ·Q· · ·– to you, have you ever talked to her
23· ·about what she should do?
24· · · ·A· · ·I tell her — yeah, I’ve talk- — I’ve
25· ·always suggested — I tell her to go to Stacy.
1· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And do you know whether she has?
·2· · · ·A· · ·No, I don’t.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, but sitting here today, you don’t
·4· ·have any first-hand knowledge about these meetings
·5· ·being set up or who was invited to them, or anything
·6· ·of that nature; you just heard what Ms. Rivers —
·7· · · ·A· · ·Right.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·– is telling you?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Right.
10· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And have you ever been excluded
11· ·from any meetings by Ms. Tebo, that you thought you
12· ·should have attended?
13· · · ·A· · ·Not Ms. Tebo; Mr. Lawrence maybe, but not
14· ·Ms. Tebo.
15· · · ·Q· · ·And that — Mr. Lawrence is the former —
16· ·a former —
17· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
18· · · ·Q· · ·– town manager?
19· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Is that a, yes?
21· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.· I’m sorry, yes.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever been counseled or
23· ·spoken to about any of — any social media message
24· ·that you’ve ever given?· I know you’ve mentioned
25· ·that you didn’t have Facebook, but –
1· · · ·A· · ·I don’t have — I don’t have social
·2· ·media.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·None whatsoever?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Snapchat.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· It —
·6· · · ·A· · ·But it’s not — it’s for family; it’s not
·7· ·for —
·8· · · ·Q· · ·I see.· Have you ever used any profanity
·9· ·in the workplace?
10· · · ·A· · ·Always.
11· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Do you know whether Ms.
12· ·Rivers has ever complained about that, about your
13· ·use of it?
14· · · ·A· · ·She gets onto me sometimes.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· She’s come in and said, what?
16· · · ·A· · ·Just — just, You’re crazy, or God’s not
17· ·going to like that, or it’s not — you know, just —
18· · · ·Q· · ·I mean, is it —
19· · · ·A· · ·I — and I apologize, I do.
20· · · ·Q· · ·But you’re not directing it at Ms.
21· ·Rivers?
22· · · ·A· · ·No.· I’m not directing it at anybody.
23· · · ·Q· · ·You’re just saying that out of whatever,
24· ·frustration or — or just a remark?
25· · · ·A· · ·Even in a funny — I mean, shit, you
know, just…
·2· · · ·Q· · ·All right, but Ms. Rivers has not
·3· ·complained about that to you; it’s — other than to
·4· ·maybe say that God won’t like that —
·5· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·– or, You’re crazy?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes, Stop that.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·You don’t know what she’s said about Ms.
·9· ·Tebo’s though?
10· · · ·A· · ·I don’t know.
11· · · ·Q· · ·But nobody’s ever come to you and
12· ·counseled you about that?
13· · · ·A· · ·No, sir.
14· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Have you ever requested to be
15· ·a poll worker?
16· · · ·A· · ·I’ve tried, and I can’t.· It’s against
17· ·the law.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Has Ms. Tebo ever raised her voice at
19· ·you?
20· · · ·A· · ·No.
21· · · ·Q· · ·No.· Has Ms. Tomlinson ever raised your
22· ·voice at you?
23· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
24· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· You say, yes, and you nodded
25· ·your head; what do — how many times has that
Page 72
·1· ·happened?
·2· · · ·A· · ·A couple.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·When she raised her voice at you, what
·4· ·did she say; do you recall?
·5· · · ·A· · ·The first time was over a grant, the
·6· ·financials, over a grant.· And the second time was
·7· ·recently, over a message that I took by phone for
·8· ·her, so…
·9· · · ·Q· · ·And when you say, she — when I say, “she
10· ·raised her voice,” what does that mean, or what are
11· ·you telling me there, that she yelled at you?
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
13· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And did she use any profanity
14· ·when she yelled at you?
15· · · ·A· · ·I don’t think so.· I think that there —
16· ·the first time, I think — I think the first time
17· ·she said, Damn it, but it was over the phone.· It
18· ·was a conversation over the phone, because I — I
19· ·believe I was at home when we were having the
20· ·conversation, because Ken — Keith — I’m sorry, Ken
21· ·Brookins was the chief then, and I was doing a
22· ·grant, and we were — they were having issues with
23· ·the financial portion —
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
25· · · ·A· · ·– and he called me, because she

 wouldn’t — she wouldn’t push it through, and I

·2· ·didn’t understand why she wouldn’t push it through.
·3· ·She was making — she was making it difficult when
·4· ·it didn’t need to be —
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·6· · · ·A· · ·– and I was trying to explain to her
·7· ·that you can go over; you can’t go under.· If you go
·8· ·under, you have to be able to do a budget
·9· ·adjustment.· She doesn’t — I do all of the work
10· ·from A to Z, even the financial portion.
11· · · · · · ·I go in her office, I do — I do her — I
12· ·do her reports, so all she has to do is hit the
13· ·button, Submit.· So I’m trying to explain to her,
14· ·because I’m not there, that we can go over; that’s
15· ·where there’s a clause in the grant that says
16· ·anything above and beyond, the town will be — will
17· ·encumber.· So that’s why that clause is there, and
18· ·she was determined that she wanted it to be that
19· ·thousand and that thousand only.· She didn’t want it
20· ·to be $1,000.03, $1,000.01, and she wouldn’t
21· ·approve — she wouldn’t submit the expense report.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And it was your perception that
23· ·she was being difficult?
24· · · ·A· · ·No, she was being difficult.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
1· · · ·A· · ·Perception is — was way out of it; she
·2· ·was being difficult, and she yelled at me.· And
·3· ·then, I said, Whoa, you know.· I said, Who are you
·4· ·talking to like that, and she calmed down then.
·5· · · · · · ·I said, We’ll just go over it when I get
·6· ·to the office —
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·8· · · ·A· · ·– because it’s difficult to go over
·9· ·something like that over the phone.
10· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
11· · · ·A· · ·This is years —
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever gone to anyone and
13· ·complained about her —
14· · · ·A· · ·No.
15· · · ·Q· · ·– interactions with you?
16· · · ·A· · ·No.
17· · · ·Q· · ·When you addressed that issue with her,
18· ·did she stop?
19· · · ·A· · ·I didn’t address it, the issue.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Well, I guess when you — when you
21· ·informed, Hey, who are you —
22· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, she stopped.· I just said, Who are
23· ·you talking to like that.· She said — you know, and
24· ·she stopped, she calmed down — she caught herself.
25· ·As you would say, she caught herself.· It was just
in the heat of the moment.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·When — and, I think, you mentioned that
·3· ·this may have happened more than once over your —
·4· ·over your —
·5· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·– employment history with her.
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Approximately how many times would you
·9· ·say?
10· · · ·A· · ·Just a few, just a few.
11· · · ·Q· · ·And — but you never had to complain
12· ·about her —
13· · · ·A· · ·No, I wouldn’t.
14· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And sitting here today, has
15· ·any of those instances occurred when Ms. Tebo was
16· ·Town Manager?
17· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So since Ms. Tebo’s been Town
19· ·Manager, Ms. Tomlinson has raised her voice at you?
20· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Have you ever raised your voice at
22· ·her?
23· · · ·A· · ·I guess, you would have to ask Ms.
24· ·Tomlinson that.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· At — all right, fair enough.
· · · ·A· · ·Because it’s perception.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Sure.
·3· · · ·A· · ·I mean, I go talking to you like this,
·4· ·and it could be yelling for you, when it’s not
·5· ·yelling for me.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever — you directed profanity
·7· ·at Ms. Tomlinson?
·8· · · ·A· · ·No.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Have you ever raised your
10· ·voice, from your perception, at Ms. Tebo?
11· · · ·A· · ·No.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Has she ever raised her voice at you?
13· · · ·A· · ·No.
14· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· I think, Ms. — and I don’t
15· ·think — Ms. Rivers has indicated that recently she
16· ·now is copying you on all e-mails that she sends
17· ·whenever she goes to lunch or runs any errands —
18· · · ·A· · ·Oh, she is.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
20· · · ·A· · ·She says, I’m out of the office.· But
21· ·there’s been a lot of that lately, like she’s
22· ·just — I don’t know what’s going on.
23· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Have you ever — you haven’t
24· ·gone to her and asked her why you were being
25· ·included?
·1· · · ·A· · ·She — no, I didn’t have to, she told me.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·3· · · ·A· · ·She said that she doesn’t feel
·4· ·comfortable with them — with — because she says,
·5· ·she tells everybody that she — I’m leaving for
·6· ·lunch and nobody responds, and she doesn’t want it
·7· ·to come back on her that she didn’t tell anybody
·8· ·that she was going to lunch.· So now she’s putting
·9· ·it in writing, and she’s carbon copying me, so they
10· ·can’t say that they didn’t get it.
11· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Are you comfortable with
12· ·that?
13· · · ·A· · ·Potato, potato, it’s paper.
14· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Have you ever felt the need
15· ·to do that, to document that you were leaving the
16· ·office and carbon copy anyone?
17· · · ·A· · ·No.
18· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know whether Ms. Tebo has ever
19· ·disciplined Ms. Rivers for leaving the office and
20· ·not informing her?
21· · · ·A· · ·I believe she — I believe Ms. Rivers
22· ·told me she just got wrote up for missing a half of
23· ·a day.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Do you have any first-hand
25· ·knowledge about any of that?
1· · · ·A· · ·No —
·2· · · ·Q· · ·You didn’t —
·3· · · ·A· · ·– I’m sorry.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·You didn’t see the write up?
·5· · · ·A· · ·No.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Has Ms. Rivers ever come to you in
·7· ·confidence about any council members?
·8· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·About issues that she was having with
10· ·them?
11· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
12· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Has she ever come to you in
13· ·confidence about people who don’t work for the Town
14· ·of White Springs, whether employee or as council
15· ·members —
16· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
17· · · ·Q· · ·– citizens and the public?
18· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
19· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
20· · · ·A· · ·But that has to do with my job.
21· · · ·Q· · ·So she’s coming to you to report —
22· · · ·A· · ·It has to do with my job, yes.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Report things —
24· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
25· · · ·Q· · ·– in a law enforcement fashion?
· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Whatever pertains to the citizens?
·3· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·I see.· I think I’m just about finished,
·5· ·if you can give me —
·6· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·– just a couple of minutes.
·8· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
·9· · · · · · ·MR. LARKIN:· All right.· We can go off
10· · · ·the record.
11· · · · · · ·(Short recess.)
12· · · · · · ·MR. LARKIN:· We can go back on.· All
13· · · ·right.· The first thing I want to do before I
14· · · ·forget, is to mark this (indicating) as
15· · · ·Exhibit 1 and make sure that that is attached
16· · · ·to the deposition.
17· · · · · · ·THE REPORTER:· Yes, sir.
18· · · · · · ·MR. LARKIN:· Thank you.· And what I’m
19· · · ·referring to is the diagram that Ms. Rodriquenz
20· · · ·has drafted.
21· · · · · · ·(The document last-above referred to was
22· · · ·marked for identification as Exhibit Number 1.)
23· ·BY MR. LARKIN:
24· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have any first-hand knowledge,
25· ·have you ever witnessed Andrew Green avoid speaking
1· ·to Ms. Rivers?
·2· · · ·A· · ·How do I answer that?· I mean…
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Were you ever present when Ms. Rivers
·4· ·called him, and he didn’t answer?· When I say,
·5· ·”present,” present with him, when he got the phone
·6· ·call and didn’t respond?
·7· · · ·A· · ·I’ve never, no.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And other than her saying, I’ve
·9· ·attempted to contact him, and he is not answering,
10· ·you didn’t visibly see her try to contact him?
11· · · ·A· · ·Yes, yes, I have.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
13· · · ·A· · ·I’ve been up front at the copier when she
14· ·keeps trying to call him, constantly calling him and
15· ·hangs up the phone — and talking to her — I know
16· ·you find that hard to believe, but —
17· · · ·Q· · ·No, no, I believe you.
18· · · ·A· · ·It’s just — you know, I’ll — He won’t
19· ·answer my phone, (demonstrating,) he won’t answer my
20· ·phone.· The phone is ringing, he won’t answer my
21· ·phone.· And I’m just there making my copies.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Has — Mr. Green, have you ever heard him
23· ·make any remarks about Mr. Rivers?
24· · · ·A· · ·No.· I’m sorry, I haven’t.
25· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· With respect to Ms. Tebo –
how long have you been in law enforcement?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Since ’95.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·So what is that, 22 years?
·4· · · ·A· · ·A long —
·5· · · ·Q· · ·No —
·6· · · ·A· · ·Long enough.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·22 years?
·8· · · ·A· · ·About that.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And I — I guess, in your
10· ·experience as a law enforcement officer, are you
11· ·trained in people’s behaviors?
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
13· · · ·Q· · ·With respect to people having mood swings
14· ·and things of that nature?
15· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Have you ever witnessed Ms. Tebo have
17· ·mood swings?
18· · · ·A· · ·I’m not a psychologist —
19· · · ·Q· · ·I understand.
20· · · ·A· · ·– and I’m not a psychiatrist, so I can’t
21· ·tell you how Ms. Tebo is — her normal self, to her
22· ·work self, to her relaxed self, to her on —
23· ·on-guard self, okay.· I know there are times that
24· ·Ms. Tebo’s quiet and doesn’t want to be talked to
25· ·and wants to be left alone, and it — it’s obvious
And then there’s times that Ms. Tebo will talk to
·2· ·you and have a calm, casual conversation or a
·3· ·conversation, so…
·4· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And you’ve witnessed that,
·5· ·personally?
·6· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And I’m going to — I’m
·8· ·bringing this up, because this — there was an
·9· ·allegation — or not an allegation — well, an
10· ·allegation that, at some point, perhaps in the last
11· ·six months to a year, you discovered a prescriptive
12· ·medicine in the bathroom at Town Hall?
13· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
14· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know what it was?
15· · · ·A· · ·When I researched it, it was — I want to
16· ·say it came back as a Oxycontin maybe, Oxycodeine,
17· ·-Codeine — Oxycodeine, I think it was.
18· · · ·Q· · ·And do you know whether that is a
19· ·controlled substance?
20· · · ·A· · ·It is.
21· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have — you have to have a
22· ·prescription for it?
23· · · ·A· · ·You do.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And when you — when you
25· ·discovered that, was it a pill or a tablet?
·1· · · ·A· · ·It was a pill.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·When you discovered the pill, where did
·3· ·you discover it?
·4· · · ·A· · ·At the end of — in the bathroom, in the
·5· ·back.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· In the — in the back bathroom?
·7· · · ·A· · ·In the back bathroom.· There we go.
·8· · · · · · ·(Demonstrating on the hand-drawn diagram,
·9· · · ·Exhibit 1.)
10· · · · · · ·I’m sorry.
11· · · ·Q· · ·That’s okay.
12· · · ·A· · ·I forgot the bathrooms.· There’s a
13· ·bathroom here (indicating,) a backdoor here
14· ·(indicating,) a bathroom there (indicating.)
15· ·There’s a bathroom, lucky me, right here
16· ·(indicating.)· So this would be the back bathroom
17· ·(indicating.)
18· · · ·Q· · ·And is that in the back of the Council
19· ·chambers?
20· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir, it is.
21· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Is that (indicating) — so
22· ·that’s not a bathroom available to the public?
23· · · ·A· · ·No, the public uses it.
24· · · ·Q· · ·It does, okay.
25· · · ·A· · ·This one (indicating) isn’t really
1· ·available to the public.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·The one outside of your door?
·3· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.· The girls generally — just the
·4· ·girls use this one, generally.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·I see.· And you discovered the pill in
·6· ·that back bathroom?
·7· · · ·A· · ·In the first one, yes.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·The first pill?
·9· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
10· · · ·Q· · ·And did you — have you discovered more
11· ·than one?
12· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
13· · · ·Q· · ·How many?
14· · · ·A· · ·One.
15· · · ·Q· · ·One other time?
16· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
17· · · ·Q· · ·So you found two pills, total?
18· · · ·A· · ·Yes, sir.
19· · · ·Q· · ·At —
20· · · ·A· · ·Same pill.
21· · · ·Q· · ·At two different times?
22· · · ·A· · ·Same pill, yes.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Same —
24· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
25· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· When — after you’ve discovered
1· ·the first pill, do you recall when that was?
·2· · · ·A· · ·No.· I —
·3· · · ·Q· · ·Was it in the last year?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·What did you do?
·6· · · ·A· · ·I held onto it in my office, because I
·7· ·thought it was one of my guys.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·You thought it was one of your
·9· ·officers —
10· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
11· · · ·Q· · ·– who was — who was in possession of
12· ·it?
13· · · ·A· · ·I thought that maybe — he’s — he’s just
14· ·having some issues, and there’s just been some
15· ·things that have been going on with his behavior.
16· ·And there was just some —
17· · · ·Q· · ·So you —
18· · · ·A· · ·– red flags with one of my officers.
19· ·And I was like, Okay, this might be the underlying
20· ·issue here, and I just held on to it, and —
21· · · ·Q· · ·I don’t want to get into — to who that
22· ·was and any of that —
23· · · ·A· · ·No.
24· · · ·Q· · ·– because that’s a field from where
25· ·we — what this issue is.
1· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·But then did — did you — how long did
·3· ·you hold onto it for?
·4· · · ·A· · ·I want to say a couple of weeks.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Did you ever confront this particular
·6· ·person about it?
·7· · · ·A· · ·My officer?
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Yes.
·9· · · ·A· · ·No, I was waiting.
10· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· So what happened after a
11· ·couple of weeks?
12· · · ·A· · ·I found another one.
13· · · ·Q· · ·And what bathroom was that?
14· · · ·A· · ·The front bathroom.
15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Again, on the floor?
16· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Were they inside of a stall or were they
18· ·out in the —
19· · · ·A· · ·It was on the floor.· There’s — it’s not
20· ·a stall.· You just go in, and you open the door, and
21· ·there’s a toilet and a sink right there.
22· · · ·Q· · ·I see.· Just one — one bathroom?
23· · · ·A· · ·Uh-huh.
24· · · ·Q· · ·And how long after the first pill did you
25· ·find the second pill?
1· · · ·A· · ·It was a couple of weeks.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· And what did you do with the
·3· ·second pill?
·4· · · ·A· · ·I took it in my office and held onto it
·5· ·and thought how I was going to approach this,
·6· ·because now, in a law enforcement perspective — I
·7· ·know the guys don’t use that bathroom.· They all use
·8· ·the back bathroom, so now I’m back at the very
·9· ·beginning of what’s going — what’s really going on
10· ·here.· So I —
11· · · ·Q· · ·Can you write a 2 next to the bathroom
12· ·that you —
13· · · ·A· · ·Sure.
14· · · ·Q· · ·– found the second pill in, just so when
15· ·I look back in the record…
16· · · ·A· · ·(Witness complies.)
17· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, great.
18· · · ·A· · ·First, (demonstrating.)
19· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, perfect.· So you’ve got first
20· ·bathroom, second bathroom.
21· · · ·A· · ·Right.
22· · · ·Q· · ·You found the first one in the first —
23· · · ·A· · ·Right.
24· · · ·Q· · ·– and the second — or the second
25· ·being
1· · · ·A· · ·Right.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·What do you do with it after you get the
·3· ·second one?
·4· · · ·A· · ·Well, I was talking about — I talked to
·5· ·my lieutenant, obviously, because I’m thinking IA
·6· ·time, drug testing time.
·7· · · ·Q· · ·Is this after the first one?
·8· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·I see.
10· · · ·A· · ·After the first one, yes, drug testing
11· ·time, yes.· We keep an eye out for indicators,
12· ·because you want to be careful of making
13· ·accusations.· And you’ve got to be careful when you
14· ·send somebody for a drug test, because it’s not — I
15· ·mean, besides —
16· · · · · · ·When you’re first hired in law
17· ·enforcement, you have to get — it’s part of the
18· ·hiring requirements through FDLE that you have to
19· ·have a drug test.· But after that, there — we don’t
20· ·have a policy for random drug testing in the town.
21· ·So just doing a random drug test and pulling
22· ·somebody’s name out of the hat and say, hey, go take
23· ·a drug test, it’s just not going to happen.· So now
24· ·I have to be careful not to violate somebody’s
25· ·rights.
1· · · ·Q· · ·Right.
·2· · · ·A· · ·So my lieutenant and I said, we’ll sit
·3· ·back and watch, and basically, we were doing our own
·4· ·little investigation into who the heck is taking
·5· ·these controlled substances on duty.· And then I
·6· ·told him I had found a second one, and I finally
·7· ·said, you know what, I can’t play this game, because
·8· ·I — I can’t pin it on anybody.· I don’t want to pin
·9· ·it on anybody, but I need to find out who the owner
10· ·is.· So I just walked out, and I said, I found a
11· ·pill in the bathroom; has anybody lost a pill?
12· · · · · · ·And Ms. Tebo said, What does it look
13· ·like, and I said, It’s white, and she said, Let me
14· ·see, and I took it to her.· She was in the kitchen
15· ·area — okay.· I’ll draw it for you, sorry.· Kitchen
16· ·area (demonstrating.)· She was in the kitchen area,
17· ·and she looked at it and took it out of my hand and
18· ·said, Yep, that’s mine.
19· · · ·Q· · ·And that was the same exact pill —
20· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
21· · · ·Q· · ·– as the first pill?
22· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
23· · · ·Q· · ·So did you ever — what did you do with
24· ·it when she said it was hers?
25· · · ·A· · ·No, I didn’t do anything with it.· She
1· ·took it out of my hand.
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Did you ask her about the pill —
·3· · · ·A· · ·No.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·– whether she had a prescription for it?
·5· · · ·A· · ·No.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Did you ever indicate that you had found
·7· ·another one prior?
·8· · · ·A· · ·No.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Did you ever ask her whether she was
10· ·using the pills while working?
11· · · ·A· · ·No.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Why not?
13· · · ·A· · ·Ms. Tebo’s not one you question.
14· · · ·Q· · ·What do you mean by that?
15· · · ·A· · ·She’s just not somebody you question.
16· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, because she — because what will
17· ·she do?
18· · · ·A· · ·Her — you just don’t question her
19· ·authority.· You don’t question what she does.· You
20· ·don’t question her.
21· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
22· · · ·A· · ·There’s a hierarchy, there are in men.
23· ·There’s a hierarchy in women.· There’s alpha,
24· ·there’s beta, you know that.
25· · · ·Q· · ·And so she’s an alpha female?
1· · · ·A· · ·Very.· I’m an alpha female, but I’m also
·2· ·permissive.· I mean, I respect authority.· I respect
·3· ·the chain of command, and what business is it of
·4· ·mine to ask my supervisor why she’s taking medicine,
·5· ·and if she’s got a prescription.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Are you familiar with the
·7· ·prescriptive medicine Oxycodone —
·8· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
·9· · · ·Q· · ·– or Oxycontin?
10· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
11· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· How —
12· · · ·A· · ·I know she shouldn’t be taking it at
13· ·work —
14· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Had you ever —
15· · · ·A· · ·– if she is.
16· · · ·Q· · ·When you say you’re familiar with it, how
17· ·are you familiar with it?
18· · · ·A· · ·To — through training, and obviously,
19· ·it’s a pain medication, so…
20· · · ·Q· · ·That is abused —
21· · · ·A· · ·Or —
22· · · ·Q· · ·– is that right?
23· · · ·A· · ·Well, that it’s abused, it can — all
24· ·medicine can be abused.
25· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Have you had situations where
· ·you’ve arrested people in the public for having
·2· ·abused that drug?
·3· · · ·A· · ·No, sir.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·All right.
·5· · · ·A· · ·Selling it.
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, selling it.· You’ve had —
·7· · · ·A· · ·Selling it, but not — not abusing it.
·8· ·That’s a —
·9· · · ·Q· · ·Possessing it?
10· · · ·A· · ·Illegally, illegally, if they possess it
11· ·illegally.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Are you familiar with any of its side
13· ·effects?
14· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
15· · · ·Q· · ·What are some of those?
16· · · ·A· · ·You shouldn’t drive with it.· You
17· ·shouldn’t work, if you’re taking it.· I mean, it’s
18· ·not something that you should have in your system.
19· · · ·Q· · ·Does it make you more irritable?
20· · · ·A· · ·If it’s not taken correctly, it can —
21· ·that — that — it sure can.
22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Does it affect people’s judgment?
23· · · ·A· · ·It sure does.
24· · · ·Q· · ·Can it cause someone to have mood swings?
25· · · ·A· · ·It sure can.
· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· And sitting here today, do you
·2· ·have any first-hand knowledge whether Ms. Tebo is —
·3· ·is taking that medication while at work?
·4· · · ·A· · ·No, I don’t.
·5· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Or whether she’s taking it
·6· ·pursuant to a prescription?
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yes, it is prescribed.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have first-hand knowledge that it
·9· ·is prescribed?
10· · · ·A· · ·She did — well, I was told that it was
11· ·prescribed.
12· · · ·Q· · ·Who told you that?
13· · · ·A· · ·Her roommate.
14· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Who is that person?
15· · · ·A· · ·I really —
16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Oh, Fred.
17· ·BY MR. LARKIN:
18· · · ·Q· · ·Without divulging who the person is, fair
19· ·enough, what — what lead to that person telling you
20· ·that it was prescribed?
21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Can we go off the record?
22· · · · · · ·MR. LARKIN:· Yes, we can.
23· · · · · · ·(Off-the-record discussion.)
24· · · · · · ·MR. LARKIN:· All right.· We can go back
25· · · ·on
BY MR. LARKIN:
·2· · · ·Q· · ·Just two more questions —
·3· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·– or two more discussions, that is.· Are
·5· ·you familiar with the Town of White Springs’s policy
·6· ·manual?
·7· · · ·A· · ·As far as — for the most part.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Do you have a copy of it in your
·9· ·office, or have you been given a copy?
10· · · ·A· · ·I’ve got a copy of it outside, actually,
11· ·in my bag, because I refer to it.· I’ve read it, but
12· ·you have to — I refer to it.· I don’t know it like
13· ·the back of my hand.
14· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Do you know what the policy is on
15· ·discrimination or harassment in the workplace?
16· · · ·A· · ·I know there’s a policy on it, yes.
17· · · ·Q· · ·Do you know whether there’s a reporting
18· ·requirement?
19· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, I believe there is.
20· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
21· · · ·A· · ·I believe you have to report it to your
22· ·supervisor, which I am not.
23· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Anything else that we’ve
24· ·talked about that you want to clarify, or is there
25· ·anything else that we haven’t — that I haven’t
·1· ·asked you, that you want to tell me?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Off the record.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· We can go off the record —
·4· · · ·A· · ·I mean —
·5· · · ·Q· · ·– that’s — I guess, when I write the
·6· ·report —
·7· · · ·A· · ·Yeah.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·– generally speaking, I’m going to rely
·9· ·on everything that’s written.
10· · · ·A· · ·I understand that.
11· · · ·Q· · ·So if there’s anything that you want to
12· ·tell me that’s off the record, that would change
13· ·anything you’ve said —
14· · · ·A· · ·No.
15· · · ·Q· · ·– then I would rather you put that on
16· ·the record, but if you’re comfortable with what
17· ·we’ve talked about, or if there’s something else
18· ·that you feel like we should have talked about, that
19· ·you’re comfortable putting on the record.
20· · · ·A· · ·I guess, I’m — help me understand why
21· ·I’m asked — why I’m being asked all of these
22· ·questions.· I mean —
23· · · ·Q· · ·You were identified as a witness by Ms.
24· ·Rivers.· In fact, she formally requested that I
25· ·interview you.· And the topics that I’ve asked you
1· ·about were topics either made part of her complaint
·2· ·or part of testimony that has been given with
·3· ·respect to this investigation.· I guess, as I’ve
·4· ·indicated earlier, there’s already been a number of
·5· ·people interviewed, including Ms. Rivers on two
·6· ·occasions.
·7· · · ·A· · ·Right.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·So the issues that I’m talking to you
·9· ·about are issues that have already been — that I’ve
10· ·already been informed about.· So that — that is the
11· ·reason that I’m speaking to you; one is that — that
12· ·I was asked to do so; and two, the topics that I’m
13· ·covering are topics that were either part of her
14· ·formal complaint and/or part of witness’s testimony
15· ·regarding this investigation.
16· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
17· · · ·Q· · ·So that’s the whole reason, you’re not a
18· ·party — you’re not a person that she has identified
19· ·as in any way harassing or discriminating against
20· ·her —
21· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
22· · · ·Q· · ·– but you are a person that she has
23· ·asked me to speak to.
24· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
25· · · ·Q· · ·So you’re not a subject of the
· ·investigation —
·2· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
·3· · · ·Q· · ·– you’re only a witness.
·4· · · ·A· · ·And that’s through what I’ve overheard or
·5· ·what I’ve seen or my perception —
·6· · · ·Q· · ·Correct.
·7· · · ·A· · ·– to things.
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Correct, absolutely.
·9· · · ·A· · ·Okay.· In that case, you might want to
10· ·talk to Lieutenant Brownfield.
11· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Lieutenant Brownfield?
12· · · ·A· · ·Because he has come to me on several
13· ·occasions about screaming and yelling matches in the
14· ·office.
15· · · ·Q· · ·I see, okay.· I appreciate that.· I — we
16· ·will certainly try to follow up with Lieutenant
17· ·Brownfield.
18· · · ·A· · ·So I’m just — I mean, a lot of my
19· ·information is what they come to me and…
20· · · ·Q· · ·When you say, “they,” you’re referring to
21· ·Ms. Rivers and/or Lieutenant Brownfield?
22· · · ·A· · ·He — yes.
23· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
24· · · ·A· · ·Yeah, and he come to me.
25· · · ·Q· · ·And, I guess, Officer Meeks came to you
1· ·on occasion?
·2· · · ·A· · ·Well, yeah, yeah, he did on that one —
·3· ·that one occasion.
·4· · · ·Q· · ·All right.· Has anybody else come to you,
·5· ·other than those three?
·6· · · ·A· · ·Everybody comes to me, but not on what
·7· ·we’re talking about —
·8· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.
·9· · · ·A· · ·– so…
10· · · ·Q· · ·Okay, good.
11· · · · · · ·MR. LARKIN:· I’m going to order this
12· · · ·transcript, and when it’s compiled, when the
13· · · ·court reporter compiles it, you’re given the
14· · · ·opportunity to review it, and —
15· · · ·A· · ·Right.
16· · · ·Q· · ·– make sure that everything, you know,
17· ·you said you understood the question, and you’re
18· ·comfortable with everything, the answers, but if you
19· ·would like that opportunity to do so, you could let
20· ·her know now.
21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I do.
22· · · · · · ·MR. LARKIN:· All right, perfect.· So
23· · · ·she’ll read.· And I appreciate your time.
24· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Thank you very much. I
25· · · ·hope that I helped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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